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Dec17
Responding to WindKiller's comment on "You Are So Fundamentally Wrong"
NextStage: Predictive Intelligence, Persuasion Engineering, Interactive Analytics and Behavioral Metrics Frequent reader, commenter, contributor and friend WindKiller offered a worthy and long comment to my "You are so fundamentally WRONG" post.

For those unaware, that post had to do with a strange email our R&D group received. This email was such an oddity that I decided to publish it as a blog post and solicit readers' thoughts.

(and after reading this post, I encourage readers to share their thoughts on why I did so)

Here I'll respond to WindKiller's musings regarding that email. WindKiller's thoughts are in italics text, my responses are in normal text.

I believe the complaint is you are treating people the way you are willing to/desire to be treated instead of considering how they would like to be treated. You are only considering your preferences and not theirs. Maybe you don't like to have the door held open for you because you perceive it as an indication of weakness, but some people appreciate the gesture as respectful. Maybe you like to be called honey, sweetheart, or champ by common acquaintances, but others may find those terms demeaning. Maybe you are a masochistic SOB, but please don't unleash the horse whip and entertain uninvited sadism to stand fast with your principles (we'll call this the 'worst enemy' proviso).

The actual point of reference reads "Do unto others as if they were you. In other words, cut out the middle man. Treat others the way you treat yourself. People do this anyway. All we do is suggest you become aware of it."

The concept of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." is a fallacy except in very rare cases usually involving things most people don't want to endure, and your explanation doesn't hold when Theory of Mind, psycho- and neuro-logic considerations are in place.

Individual A can not consider how individual B would like to be treated except as a reflection of A's own thoughts, beliefs, ideals, dreams, hopes, inspirations, experiences, etc. History is rife with examples of where "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" has led to disaster or near to it because B didn't share the same cultural structures as A hence A's "good works, words and intentions" caused problems because A's good works, words and intentions were B's destructions, malice and damnations.

However, when A has an understanding of themselves, their own motivations, their own beliefs, own prejudices, desires, ..., when they recognize the "why" behind the "what" that they are doing they have the ability to question if their "what" is appropriate with every "who" "when" and "where". This gives them the ability to determine if there's an alternative "how" to achieving their "what".

As written earlier, people treat others as they wish to be treated except in very rare cases. For whatever reason A holds a door open for B, know that A wants doors held open for them for the same reason. For whatever reason and in whatever way A nominizes B know that A wants to be nominized for the same reason and in the same way.

And this brings us to the masochistic SOB. If A is a masochistic SOB they will find ways to treat others as if those others were also masochists. It may be physical, it may be psychological, it may be emotional, ..., and have no doubt that A will consciously or other wise learn how to perpetrate their self-image onto others because that's the way humans work (this isn't a statement of pessimism, it's a statement of neurology. The fact that it is neurology may be pessimistic...).

This isn't the "worst enemy" scenario, this is the "the abused become the abusers" scenario. The amount of work it takes to undo such scenarios is more than most people can bear. The abused person who becomes an abuser is still abusing themselves in so many ways -- obvious and not -- that merely being in their presence can be painful (psychologically, emotionally, spiritually, ...) to others.

These scenarios work in all things, in all ways. The person who is given nothing but love demonstrates nothing but love in their dealings with others. They have learned to love themselves therefore they don't have the experience of not loving, hence can't "not love" another.

So, whether people realize it or not, they do unto others as if those others were them regardless. Our suggestion is to learn that this is how things are and then you can do with it what you will. More simply, you choose how to treat others. Our suggestion is to make that choice a conscious decision. Do that often enough and for long enough and it becomes automatic. IE, the abuser can choose not to abuse. Make that choice often enough and for long enough and the individual is simply not an abuser anymore.

Consider this email's author's own words, their use of color, font settings, etc., as an example of this. This individual -- by their own demonstration -- wants to be determined as "wrong", "arrogant", "self centered", etc., Their "You need to treat others as they would have you treat them" indicates a belief that others are more important than the author, thus your choice of masochist in your example might be quite correct for that author. Note, also, that the author's statement goes well beyond "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" as the author essentially negates their own needs in the statement. I could give an in-depth psycho-emotional analysis of the author based solely on what they've written (people simply have to learn what they reveal in the least things they do) and time doesn't permit it.

Let's go back to "Do unto others as if they were you" for a moment. Let's say somebody does something that really upsets you. You are completely prepared to rip them a new one.

Here's where "Do unto others as if they were you" comes in. Do you know why they did whatever they did that really upset you? Chances are you know why you'd do something like that and you can guess why they did it.

"...you can guess why they did it."

You can guess why they did it because you know why you'd do it. This is Theory of Mind made manifest, where, why and how psycho- and neuro-logic considerations make themselves known. Take a moment and consider if their reasons for doing whatever upset you are tremendously different from the reasons you would do such a thing to someone else.

Now take one more moment and consider, Would you really, truly, honest to whatever god you choose, willingly and intentionally do such a thing to another person?

You would? Please seek professional help. You are an individual who would willingly cause pain, harm and hurt to another.

You would not? You would not intentionally upset another person? Ah, Welcome, Good Friend. Be Thee Well Met! You are a human in the act of being, of becoming more human today than you were yesterday.

Now, Pray thee, Good Friend, Travail with me a few steps more.

If you know you would not intentionally do such a thing to another person, do you really, truly, honest to whatever god you choose believe that that other person did whatever it is that upset you so intentionally, willingly and with malice aforethought?

(this is often rephrased here at NSE central as 'Nobody wakes up in the morning and says, "Yeah, today I'm going to be an a??hole!"')

Could it have been a joke gone awry? Did they think they were doing you a kindness and you perhaps misunderstood their intention (and that gets us back to "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and how it can go so painfully awry)? Was it a simple mistake on their part? Could there have been any multitude of other reasons for what they did that their time and space dictated and that your time and space would not?

So instead of "You are so fundamentally WRONG" (a true demonstration of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" because if this is a demonstration of the author's "You need to treat others as they would have you treat them. You do not get to make the decision for them as to how they would like to be treated, and they might not wish your treatment of yourself on a worst enemy." then this individual does not wish others to treat them well (by my definitions of wellness, anyway) and is demonstrating they want...oh, heck, I simply won't get into that) a "Do unto others as if they were you" response (which is what the author demonstrated anyway) might be something like "Gosh, I really don't understand '...' and disagree with it. Could you help me to understand how you came up with it?" or "I'm having a real challenge with '...'. Here's where I'm coming from... Can you help me understand where you're coming from?" or "I've never encountered anything like '...' before. Where does it come from?", etc.

Amusingly, I wrote about such things in 10 Rules for Avoiding Deadly Silences, specifically elements 3, 4, 2 and 6-8. The entire set of rules apply to all human interactions, not just family.

The subsequent information is perhaps the author's own fortune cookie wisdom he shares with others. Perhaps after he felt the need to identifying his own mantras after tearing down your principles. Something to add to your principles when you delete the challenged lines. The signature calling card of a schlock jock.

Well written, WindKiller. I (ahem) believe we already have principles that address those elements.

I'm pretty sure that wasn't my email.

Rest easy. It wasn't yours.

Please contact NextStage for information regarding presentations and trainings on this and other topics.

Sign up for the NextStage Irregular, our very irregular, definitely frequency-wise and probably topic-wise newsletter.


2 Comments/Trackbacks




The abused becomes the abuser? Sounds like someone has taken a side on the nature v. nuture debate. Aren't some people born predisposed to certain behaviors? Might that not include addictions (I wish someone would write something about this) and violent behaviors, including abusing and seeking out abusers or those who desire abuse?

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